By RaquelRuiz |

I know I have seen references to those families from Los Altos that are known to have Jewish roots, but am having difficulty locating them in the archives. Would someone please assist me?

My father's ftdna population finder shows him as 31% Middle Eastern (Jewish,Palestinian, Bedouin). He has some family finder distant matches with people with only Jewish surnames and Eastern European roots. I'm wondering if anyone else in the group is having the same experience?

I was also stunned to notice that one of the matches is also a distant match for my husband, who is of Eastern European Jewish ancestry. (We suspect, based on my husband's ydna matches, that that line might have been part of the exodus from Iberia during the Expulsion of 1492.)

Thanks for any assistance or response.

Raquel Ruiz

katy_brecht_quesada

9 years 5 months ago

Permalink

my grandpa got 12% middle eastern on ancestry, so you aren't the only mexican with above noise level middle eastern dna

Not all Jewish ancestry shows up as middle eastern dna. Many Ashkenazi Jews show European ancestry dna. The Jewish line that Toribio Hernandez Arellano descends from would show European ancestry dna. The idea that Jews more often married within their own family circles was strong in the davidic line. The Jewish families from Eastern Europe that immigrated into the Iberian peninsula tended to marry into the same families.there were about a couple dozen families that intermarried often in the 13th and 14th centuries.in Aragon and Southern France.

my grandpa got 5% european jewish as well. sometime ago i did the free transfer to ftdna, but i haven't got 4 people refered yet so i can't see his ftdna transfer myorigins results yet.

Not all Jewish ancestry shows up as middle eastern dna. The Jewish line that Toribio Hernandez Arellano descends from also shows European ancestry dna. The idea that Jews more often married within their own family circles was strong in the davidic line. The Jewish families from Eastern Europe that immigrated into the Iberian peninsula tended to marry into the same families.there were about a couple dozen families that intermarried often in the 13th and 14th centuries.in Aragon and Southern France.

R.A.Ricci (not verified)

9 years 5 months ago

Permalink

Dear Raquel,

In the past year I have learned a lot more about the information that you seek. I am continuing my research so my book isn't finished yet. I have found that some of our lines traveled from Easter Europe a century and two centuries before the dispersal from the Iberian peninsula. These are not consider Sephardic Jews, they are called Ashkenazi Jews. This information helps explain your DNA results. I will let you know when I finish my book.

Thanks,
Rick A Ricci

I also came back with 3% Ashkenazi Jewish roots but don't know if it's from my Fathers Jerez, Zacatecas roots or my Mothers Michoacan, Jalisco roots. Is there a way to find out?
I'm also wondering why the comment that this is a sensitive subject to some members? Isn't our quest to find, reclaim and share the lineage and genetics of our ancestors when possible?
Linda Castanon-Long in Olympia, Wa

Jewish ancestry is a sensitive subject on this site.

Many genealogists on this site claim that our Jalisco Jewish ancestral lines are a myth. These genealodgists have ignored or discarded what we know about the Jewish presence in the Iberian peninsula from at least 2000 years ago. They claim "Christiano Viejo" status for all of their lines.

Toribio Hernandez de Arellano definitely has Jewish ancestry from his father. This line definitely has Ashkenazi Jewish and davidic line history.

The de la Torre Ledesma family definitely has some Jewish ancestry that they share with the Padilla-Davila and Rodriguez de Hijar families.

Yes, both Toribio Hernandez de Arellano and Pedro Ledesma will also show a lot of European ancestry.

Some people will claim that technically Toribio Hernandez de Arellano s descendants can claim "Christiano Viejo " status as his ancestor converted to Catholicism in August of 1389, two years before the 1391 forced conversions. His wife filed for a divorce when he converted. Many people use 1391 as a cutoff point since most conversions after 1391 carried a doubt as to whether they really converted or were just faking it to escape torture.

thank you so much for sharing your research and information on this subject.
My Dads Castanon line was Ribi and my maternal grandfather Gutierrez was Haplogroup N but now deceased and the site I did his dna on didn't break it down. My MTDNA was haplogroup A but I can only take that line back to abt 1850. Anything you share is of great value to me especially on the Ashkenazi Jewish roots.
Linda Castanon-Long

thank you so much for sharing your research and information on this subject.
My Dads Castanon line was Ribi and my maternal grandfather Gutierrez was Haplogroup N but now deceased and the site I did his dna on didn't break it down. My MTDNA was haplogroup A but I can only take that line back to abt 1850. Anything you share is of great value to me especially on the Ashkenazi Jewish roots.
Linda Castanon-Long

thank you so much for sharing your research and information on this subject.
My Dads Castanon line was Ribi and my maternal grandfather Gutierrez was Haplogroup N but now deceased and the site I did his dna on didn't break it down. My MTDNA was haplogroup A but I can only take that line back to abt 1850. Anything you share is of great value to me especially on the Ashkenazi Jewish roots.
Linda Castanon-Long

i'd consider toribio hernandez to be sephardic not askenazi, since azkenazi tends to refer to non-iberian european jews. i think there's other jewish lineages besides toribio's since my granparents don't appear to be descendents of him and my grandpa's dna results suggest that he has at least a little sephardic ancestry(like 1/8-ish or higher).

We had Ashkenazi Jews move into Spain in the 13th and 14th centuries. They tended to marry within their own group up until the dispersion. They had some different traditions than the Jews in the Iberian peninsula. Toribios paternal ancestry was part of this group. Toribio also descended from the davidic line.

The Jewish lines shared by the Padilla, Dela Torre Ledesma, and Rodriguez de Hijar does seem to be Sephardic.

are the de la torre ledesma related to the de la torre family in jerez/tepetongo/huejucar vincinity?

on another note, i haven't figured out which lines my grandpa got his me/sephardic from

I'd love to know this information too since so many have De la Torre in the Jerez, Tepetongo and Huejucar areas.
Linda in Olympia, Wa

I don't know if the De la Torre in the Jerez, Tepetongo and Huejucar areas are the same De La Torre Ledesma. My De la Torre family that I have studied is widespread in Nueva Galicia. My more immediate De la Torre family is in los Altos de Jalisco and Aguascalientes.

This post comes out of no where. I have no idea what the writer is referring to.
Why do I never receive any of the posts from any of the forums. I've checked at the
site and I'm subscribed to all mailing lists, but receive nothing. What's wrong?
Thanks so much.
Alice BB
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 1/9/16, jlblonde@sbcglobal.net wrote:

Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Where is the evidence?
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, January 9, 2016, 6:06 PM

I would like to review the documents
myself. Where can i find these
documents?

To read all the information. Go to the website, log in, and read from there.

There are problems with the mail delivery in the various forums

To read all the messages go to the website, log in, and read

To post to the group you should be able to reply to the messages that are
delivered but to be safe you should:

Go to the website, log in, and post from the website.

Joseph

=========================

Joseph Puentes
Clean@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html

> -----Original Message-----
> From: General [mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On
> Behalf Of Alice Blake
> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2016 7:49 PM
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Where is the evidence?
>
> This post comes out of no where. I have no idea what the writer is
> referring to.
> Why do I never receive any of the posts from any of the forums. I've
> checked at the site and I'm subscribed to all mailing lists, but
> receive nothing. What's wrong?
> Thanks so much.
> Alice BB
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sat, 1/9/16, jlblonde@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Where is the evidence?
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Saturday, January 9, 2016, 6:06 PM
>
> I would like to review the documents
> myself. Where can i find these
> documents?
>

I get the same thing. So, if I am really intrigued by a post for which I have not received a prior post, I have to sign in to the Nuestros Ranchos website and I find all the posts there even when I have only received some of them.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2016 00:48:38 +0000
> From: alicebb@att.net
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Where is the evidence?
>
> This post comes out of no where. I have no idea what the writer is referring to.
> Why do I never receive any of the posts from any of the forums. I've checked at the
> site and I'm subscribed to all mailing lists, but receive nothing. What's wrong?
> Thanks so much.
> Alice BB
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sat, 1/9/16, jlblonde@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Where is the evidence?
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Saturday, January 9, 2016, 6:06 PM
>
> I would like to review the documents
> myself. Where can i find these
> documents?
>

https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1&region=MEXICO

Pick your state and go browsing.

John P. Schmal

-----Original Message-----
From: jlblonde <jlblonde@sbcglobal.net>
To: general <general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org>
Sent: Sat, Jan 9, 2016 4:06 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Where is the evidence?

I would like to review the documents myself. Where can i find these
documents?

https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1&region=MEXICO

Pick your state and go browsing.

John P. Schmal

-----Original Message-----
From: jlblonde <jlblonde@sbcglobal.net>
To: general <general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org>
Sent: Sat, Jan 9, 2016 4:06 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Where is the evidence?

I would like to review the documents myself. Where can i find these
documents?

Hi Raquel allow me to recommend a certain book which I recently researched "Silent Heritage" by Richard Santos. I found it informative and well documented. It refers to the many colonial families who were summond by the Inquisition as suspected Jewish Conversos.Lists names and dates. Good luck.

I'm unsure whether I'm the Raquel for whom this is intended, but I
appreciate the recommendation. It looks like its going to be a challenge
to locate.

Raquel Ruiz
Massachusetts

On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 11:47 PM, wrote:

> I Raquel allow me to recommend a certain book which I recently researched
> "Silent Heritage" by Richard Santos. I found it informative and well
> documented. It refers to the many colonial families who were summond by the
> Inquisition as suspected Jewish Conversos.Lists names and dates. Good luck.
>

this book used is for sale on Amazon for $198.  I think there are not many copies out there..Linda
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Raquel Ruiz
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2015 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish roots

I'm unsure whether I'm the Raquel for whom this is intended, but I
appreciate the recommendation.  It looks like its going to be a challenge
to locate.

Raquel Ruiz
Massachusetts

On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 11:47 PM, wrote:

> I Raquel allow me to recommend a certain book which I recently researched
> "Silent Heritage" by Richard Santos. I found it informative and well
> documented. It refers to the many colonial families who were summond by the
> Inquisition as suspected Jewish Conversos.Lists names and dates. Good luck.
>

Hi again Raquel, I was able to get this book through my local county library in Southern CA. I simply gave the librarian the title and author she entered it in her computer and we ordered/borrowed it from a campus of the University of Texas. I've gotten several hard to find and rare historical reference books from University libraries through out the country this way. And it's inexpensive. Good luck.

Thanks for Erlinda, I plan to do just that after I retire next year, so I
can give the resource my full attention.
Raquel

R.A.Ricci (not verified)

11 years 3 months ago

Permalink

this is a sensitive subject with many members. It is best to discuss your question privately. I am working on a project that will address your results. A post that addresses a small piece of the puzzle of our DNA results can be found in my latest post on the ancestry of Carlo Lomellini. I am working on a book that has a chapter that will more fully address your findings.When I finish that chapter, I will share it with you.
R.A Ricci

Hello George

I was hoping to have had it published this past summer but I got caught doing a lot of research which has added more information that I am going to add. I say every year that I hope to publish by the next summer. The difference today is that I am now comfortable publishing the book with the research that I have already completed.

i need to compare the different software programs to make the tables for the book, and decide if the book is only going to be in English or in both English and Spanish.

Even if the book is not published in time, I would hope to at least present a rough draft of the book in July 2016 in Los Angeles, California. I have many elderly relatives that are urging me to present the findings soon.

Rick A Ricci

Dear george
I said that I had enough research for the book but new material is discovered and then I have to go back and rewrite a section. I had one of our ancestors as a devout converso who married his daughters to Old Christian noble families. He stated that it was important for them to marry into these families, old Christians with new Christians. However, I just found out that on his deathbed he called out to God using Jewish phrases stating that he was going to him after obeying all of his laws. The line between converso and Jewish is a slippery one at times, and at other times conversion led to fanaticism, like Torquemada.

Although I keep finding these lines, it is important to remember that it is a minority and I keep finding many lines that aren't Jewish. I have found some French lines to my surprise. The great thing about these findings is that I have stories to go with many of these people. The claim that Jewish and French ancestors in Jalisco may be a myth but it is not a myth that there are French and Jewish lines in the 13, 14, and 15th centuries in the Iberian peninsula. Even some Italian lines. Some here and there, not most.

History, Culture and General Discussion