I have located what I think is the burial record for my 5ggmo, Catarina
Perez, on 17 Jul. 1791. It states "no se administro pax su muerte tan
violenta", which suggests to me that she may have been murdered so there may
be a trial associated with her death. Can anyone guide me towards the
location of criminal records for this location and period? Thanks so much.
"Muerte violenta"
Hello Raquel (prima),
I have also found that some of my folks were not administered last rights due to "por la violencia de su muerte" - or - "por ser su muerte violenta"...
I don't think it means the a person was murdered, per se, but rather it was a term used when the death was sudden and unexpected. The cases that I've found referred to cases of: 1) died giving birth, 2) died of sudden sickness, and 3) drowning or a similar act that brought sudden death and the priest didn't arrive in time to take confession and administer rights.
I hope this helps.
"Muerte violenta"
Thanks for responding, Claudia. I have thought of that it could be due to
an accident or natural disaster of some sort, too, but what if?
By the way, I've located more records for my Diego Ruiz family, but still no
maternal names mentioned. Catarina Perez was his wife.
Raquel
"Muerte violenta"
I have found several of my ancestors died during Indian attacks on the caravans going north or south on the "Royal Road". They were so far away from any settled place that they were buried in mass graves, and a list of the murdered were given to the priest who recorded their deaths at the hands of "los indios barbaros".
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 23:53:09 -0400
> From: ruiz.raquel061@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] "Muerte violenta"
>
> Thanks for responding, Claudia. I have thought of that it could be due to
> an accident or natural disaster of some sort, too, but what if?
>
> By the way, I've located more records for my Diego Ruiz family, but still no
> maternal names mentioned. Catarina Perez was his wife.
>
> Raquel
"Muerte violenta"
Emilie,
I'm just curious--was the priest from their hometown notified and did he
record it? If not, how did you come across it?
Raquel
"Muerte violenta"
Raquel,
I found it I think in "defunciones" for Juarez, Chihuahua, and the villages in the lower El Paso Valley (Socorro, San Elizario, Ysleta) below the current El Paso, TX. I would find comments like (I am paraphrasing the Spanish) "buried in a common grave". I guess whoever came along and found the massacred bodies knew who they were or they had their names on documents they carried, and from there a list was made to give to the priest. I guess whoever found them said a few words over them before they were buried, but they did not receive extreme unction (the last sacrament), or whatever.
My ancestors who settled from Chihuahua to Northern New Mexico (Taos, Santa Fe, etc) were mostly soldiers assigned to the various "presidios" along El Camino Real (Parral, Janos, San Elizario). They patrolled and escorted folks over these roads to provide security and safety, but if a party struck out on their own without military escort, they were often ambushed by Apaches. Often whole villages were attacked when the militia was not there to protect them. They would be struck by arrows or lances while working in the fields, then their houses burned and their livestock stolen. Many violent deaths from "indios barbaros".
Emilie
> Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 23:34:28 -0400
> From: ruiz.raquel061@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] "Muerte violenta"
>
> Emilie,
> I'm just curious--was the priest from their hometown notified and did he
> record it? If not, how did you come across it?
> Raquel
"Muerte violenta"
Emilie,
I've experienced the same thing researching defunciones of those times in Nuevo Leon around the Monterrey area. When entire villages or ranchos were attacked, I have come across several pages containing the names of the dead including women, children, esclavos, and other "indios" from indigineous groups different from the attackers . It's quite sad, but I have to remind myself that we were the interlopers.
Alice
--- On Sun, 5/22/11, Emilie Garcia wrote:
From: Emilie Garcia
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] "Muerte violenta"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Sunday, May 22, 2011, 4:53 AM
Raquel,
I found it I think in "defunciones" for Juarez, Chihuahua, and the villages in the lower El Paso Valley (Socorro, San Elizario, Ysleta) below the current El Paso, TX. I would find comments like (I am paraphrasing the Spanish) "buried in a common grave". I guess whoever came along and found the massacred bodies knew who they were or they had their names on documents they carried, and from there a list was made to give to the priest. I guess whoever found them said a few words over them before they were buried, but they did not receive extreme unction (the last sacrament), or whatever.
My ancestors who settled from Chihuahua to Northern New Mexico (Taos, Santa Fe, etc) were mostly soldiers assigned to the various "presidios" along El Camino Real (Parral, Janos, San Elizario). They patrolled and escorted folks over these roads to provide security and safety, but if a party struck out on their own without military escort, they were often ambushed by Apaches. Often whole villages were attacked when the militia was not there to protect them. They would be struck by arrows or lances while working in the fields, then their houses burned and their livestock stolen. Many violent deaths from "indios barbaros".
Emilie
> Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 23:34:28 -0400
> From: ruiz.raquel061@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] "Muerte violenta"
>
> Emilie,
> I'm just curious--was the priest from their hometown notified and did he
> record it? If not, how did you come across it?
> Raquel
"Muerte violenta"
Se refiere a todo tipo de muerte violenta, desde asesinado hasta muerto en un accidente. Yo he encontrado dentro de éstas categorías a: devorado por fieras, arrastrado por la corriente de un río, aplastado por un alud, por rocas, derrumbe de minas, apuñalado, atravesado por la espada, mordido por una serpiente, cojido por un toro, pisado o tirado del caballo, quemados mientras preparaban su tierra para siembra, ahogados, etc.
Rodolfo Sinaí Gómez
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: claudiacasillas@gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 19:30:34 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] "Muerte violenta"
>
> Hello Raquel (prima),
> I have also found that some of my folks were not administered last rights due to "por la violencia de su muerte" - or - "por ser su muerte violenta"...
>
> I don't think it means the a person was murdered, per se, but rather it was a term used when the death was sudden and unexpected. The cases that I've found referred to cases of: 1) died giving birth, 2) died of sudden sickness, and 3) drowning or a similar act that brought sudden death and the priest didn't arrive in time to take confession and administer rights.
>
> I hope this helps.
"Muerte violenta"
Rodolfo,
Gracias para su respuesta. Yo he encontrado uno antepasado que se ahogo en
un rio, eran indicado asi y no como "muerte violente". Suyos eran indicados,
o eran como "muerte violente" y buscaba mas informacion? Si buscaba mas
informacion, donde y como?
Raquel
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: claudiacasillas@gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 19:30:34 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] "Muerte violenta"
> >
> > Hello Raquel (prima),
> > I have also found that some of my folks were not administered last rights
> due to "por la violencia de su muerte" - or - "por ser su muerte
> violenta"...
> >
> > I don't think it means the a person was murdered, per se, but rather it
> was a term used when the death was sudden and unexpected. The cases that
> I've found referred to cases of: 1) died giving birth, 2) died of sudden
> sickness, and 3) drowning or a similar act that brought sudden death and the
> priest didn't arrive in time to take confession and administer rights.
> >
> > I hope this helps.
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